March 12, 2007

Takis, Lillikas and The Golden Dawn

Lillikas, foreign minister and wannabe heir to the throne, told us yesterday that "as dangerous are the nationalist/chauvinist fringe groups, is Takis Hadjidimitriou who is demanding the opening of Ledras street, and therefore creates the feelings that drive the nationalist groups." In short, Takis is the cause of what is called The Golden Dawn.

If this were a man on the street, you could ignore such lapses of concentration. But this is the foreign minister acting as a government spokesperson, and is equating the fringe nationalists with a member of parliament, elected on the AKEL ticket for three consecutive terms, and a man well-known for his anti-nationalistic feelings.

The statement, and the whole train of thought behind it, defies belief. It is like saying that the Jews are responsible for Nazism because with their behavior they caused the nazists to hate them... It is a statement that gives a free passport to the fringe nationalists to keep at it, since according to the foreign minister, they are being provoked.

Welcome to the 21st century on the island...

PS: It was interesting that Katsourides reacted the most aggressively when Averof Neofytou mentioned that maybe DHSY should vote like AKEL for the euro introduction. Maybe the chief among comrades should be advised, that if your views are suddenly followed by your opponents, you rejoice and welcome them, rather than frown and accuse them of not knowing what they are doing...

20 Comments:

Blogger Illantros (Ιλλαντρος) said...

Hadjidimitriou was an EDEK MP, not AKEL. Maybe you got him mixed up with the other HadjiTakis....

Everything else is right on target.

12 March, 2007 10:06  
Blogger apodimos Kypreos said...

Thanks, makes more sense now, easier target for The Heir Apparent...

12 March, 2007 10:31  
Blogger zappa said...

I seriously think that those humanoids (efen, golden dawn) exist simply because nobody reacts to their existence.....Hell, edon even marches side by side with them during the antikatoxikes

12 March, 2007 15:08  
Blogger stravoxylo said...

These kind of idiots - EFEN, Golden Dawn etc - are precisely the type that went completely underground after their stupidities provided the perfect excuse the Turkish Army had been expecting to start the invasion.

The climate didn't suit their re-appearance after the invasion, over three years of Makarios administration, ten years of Kyprianou, five years of Vassiliou, and ten of Clerides.

But over four years of Tassos, they've reappeared, they're getting the OK from his second in command, and their highly dangerous delusions are considered mainstream politics. And the stravaralanders are preparing to vote Tassos in for five more years.

Any sane person not making serious plans to leave the island forever while the leaving is still good, will only have themselves to blame when the next disaster these idiots cause brings the whole shebang crashing down on all our heads.

12 March, 2007 17:49  
Blogger Illantros (Ιλλαντρος) said...

Welcome all to the era of the perirreousa.

12 March, 2007 21:51  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Guys, I agree with most of what you write here, and wholeheartedly support your efforts.

However, stravoxylo couldn't be further away from the truth when he includes Clerides' terms as part of the inactivity period for EFEN and Golden Dawn and then claims they appeared and flourished under Tassos. I've been following EFEN very closely since its inception. I don't want to mention details, but it sure as hell wasn't Tassos who nourished them, although I'm sure he would've loved to.

12 March, 2007 22:51  
Blogger apodimos Kypreos said...

To anonymous:

For long periods in the past the island had suffered from what can be called "the silence of the lambs" or "the silence of the wolves" depending on which side you found yourself. You should say what you have to say. The difference between Clerides and Tassos is that Clerides would not allow his foreign minister (or would not even choose such a minister)who would make public comments to essentially incite further incidents against the opposite view. Clerides might not have known it was happening, which is different. But that is a key difference. So you should inform the rest of us about what should be public knowledge about EFEN, just for information purposes anyway...

13 March, 2007 09:03  
Blogger the Idiot Mouflon said...

Methinks they are pawns. tASSOS wants them to merely exist so as to provide him with an extreme, which makes him look moderate.

But their leaders cannot form a serious "καπετανάτο" or else they will have the same fate as Matsakis (tASSOS wants to be the only serious "Καπεταναίος"). Still, they are useful and he would only "τέττε" them if they step out of line with something serious e.g. a murder or a bomb attack.

13 March, 2007 17:28  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As I said, I've been observing EFEN from a safe distance since they appeared. They were a bunch of youngsters who found their heroic purpose under the protective wings of Gerontas of Limassol.

They weren't just students of Gerontas. They were also products of 4 years of ministry (what an appropriate word...) in education by the lady who now runs the Holy Inquisition of Cyprus, aka SIMAE. As soon as they were old enough and numerous enough they blossomed into EFEN, right in the beginnings of the ministry of Sky the Bighead.

By 2003, when Tassos was ready to become the savior of our glorious nation, the founding members of EFEN had already moved on to university, and since EFEN's constitution is very strict about the age of its members (14 to 20), it was now time to form a new, mighty NGO (pun intended).

With the original members gone, and a new core rising from the Colonial School in the capital, it was time for their base to move. Of course, the archbishopric, having resolved its homo erotic issues with Gerontas of Limassol, was more than happy to give them shelter in its Faneromeni complex.

It was 100% Clerides' fault (unless you claim he didn't know who the lady and Sky the Bighead were when he appointed them, or that he wasn't aware of their agenda, which I would find naive) that Tassos found them all ready and preconditioned to do exactly what he wanted them to do.

As much as I detest Tassos, I have to give him credits for being constant in his policy of not negotiating, killing and otherwise trying to get rid of TCs. Clerides' strategy was "I'll be straight with foreigners and TCs, but I'll count on the extreme nationalists for internal support".

Clerides spent ten years placing shit on the fan. All Tassos had to do was hit the switch.

13 March, 2007 18:50  
Blogger Illantros (Ιλλαντρος) said...

Anonyme, interesting story. Not sure I buy it 100%, but I know nothing about it, so I can't argue.

There's one thing I *can* argue about. You are being a bit unfair with the old man, Glafkos. You call it "counting on the extreme nationalists for internal support". I would call it "keeping the extreme nationalists under control". The Makarios wing treated Glafkos as a pariah for 20 years because "he gave a political home to the coupists". Maybe he did. But the nationalists had no say in his policies; the old man never wavered from his moderate line.

Now, of course, the nationalists have found a political home in the parties that used to rave against them. And they dictate their policies, as well as those of the government. The coupists and the Makariakoi are now one big happy family...

13 March, 2007 20:32  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quite frankly, I'm shocked by the fact that you separate Clerides from the "others". They are all one big happy family. I'm also shocked by the fact that you feel comfortable with saying "policies" and mean foreign policy while at the same time completely disregarding local administration. It's like saying that I work as a torturer but when I go home I'm a loving husband and father. I think it's quite obvious by now who was keeping who under control.

In any case, the last thing I want to say is that Glafkos and Tassos are the same, or similar in any way for that matter. I'm just pointing out that its paradoxical to address his policies by separating foreign from local and then applauding one while ignoring the other.

As for EFEN, I wasn't offering information for sale. You can do your own research, it's a small country after all.

14 March, 2007 00:29  
Blogger Noullis said...

how about this?

14 March, 2007 02:42  
Blogger Illantros (Ιλλαντρος) said...

You are easily shocked, my friend.

To be honest, I don't have much respect for the "they are all the same" attitude (some of my good friends also have it, by the way). They are not all the same, and it's every responsible citizen's obligation to weigh the pros and cons of each one and to make an informed choice. Throwing up your hands and saying "they are all the same" is just plain irresponsible. You've got to take a stand, my friend. And taking a stand means making a choice, not just whining.

Obviously when I was talking about Clerides' policies I was talking about foreign policy. I don't know why that bothered you. Sure, Clerides made lots of mistakes when it came to domestic policies. But that it's irrelevant. The point I was making was that he had a firm line on the Cyprus issue and he never let the patriots in his party dictate his policy. That, my anonymous friend, is just one of the things that make him different from the others.

14 March, 2007 09:32  
Blogger Illantros (Ιλλαντρος) said...

P.S. Incidentally, anonymous is right about Tassos being consistent in his policies. I disagree with those policies, but I do give him credit for that. Εν άλλαξεν ο άδρωπος σιόρ.

14 March, 2007 09:42  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, let's boil it down to basics. You say the fact that the government engine was conditioning kids to be nationalist and hateful for a full decade under his administration is irrelevant with the fact that the same people told him to go fuck himself when he negotiated a federation solution at the end of the decade. I say it's very relevant.

And, by the way, which part of "the last thing I want to say is that Glafkos and Tassos are the same" did you mistake for "'they are all the same' attitude"? They are not the same. Clerides has a completely different approach than Tassos (do it right abroad, let the fascists roam within). A failed approach in its own right.

PS: No need for ad hominem attacks. Am I supposed to post my "standing up" CV now to get approval for criticizing Glafkos???

14 March, 2007 10:48  
Blogger Illantros (Ιλλαντρος) said...

You are right, you did say "the last thing I want to say is that Glafkos and Tassos are the same". But forgive me for being confused because in the same post you said "I'm shocked by the fact that you separate Clerides from the "others". They are all one big happy family." Let me know when you decide what your opinion is.

P.S. That was no attack, just a well-intentioned comment. Lighten up, dude.

14 March, 2007 23:29  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They are part of the big happy family of successful (Cypriot) politicians. They are ready and willing to go to bed with anyone at any given time. AKEL found it in them to support Devkalion, DHSY is now the main proponent of rapproachement, EDEK has been in every single government that ever ruled the island, and DHKO is... DHKO. Clerides stood on the shoulders of EOKA B' and became president first by rejecting the Ghali proposals (in full agreement with Tassos mind you) and then by promising the people S-300 missiles to achieve Enosis at the military defense level. I that respect yes, I do think they do have one common denominator.

15 March, 2007 00:56  
Blogger Noullis said...

OK, how about an argument over what one perceives as 'golden'. Then we can go to a hair convention and market a carbon neutral splitting paraphernalia.

Get a room, you two!

15 March, 2007 01:49  
Blogger Illantros (Ιλλαντρος) said...

Tassos rejected every plan or proposal ever put forth for Cyprus, including the Zurich-London agreements, the 1978 "western" plan that provided for the unconditional return of Ammohostos, the 1985 "almost-agreement", the Ghali ideas, the confidence-building measures, the Annan plan, and so on and so forth.

Clerides, on the other hand, has been the sole voice of reason and moderation for the last 50 years. He argued against Makarios' 13 points, he negotiated a solution with Denktash in 1973 which Makarios rejected, he was first to accept the idea of a bizonal federation in 1975, he stood up to Kyprianou's "makroxronios", he invited the TCs to join our EU negotiating team, he supported the Annan plan. The only time he ever agreed with Tassos was on the Ghali ideas, and even then there was a large difference in degree.

You really have to dislike Clerides to say that he is like Tassos just for that.

As for standing on the shoulders of EOKA B, that's just plain wrong. Clerides paid a big price for letting coupists in his party. He might have become president sooner if he hadn't done that. Allowing coupists in the party left him vulnerable to criticism and, boy, was he criticized. And it didn't earn him that many votes. I'm not sure whether he made the right decision, but he definitely didn't personally benefit from it. But he certainly did keep nationalists in check, and that's something that is not widely recognized (because most people are too busy accusing him of harboring coupists) and he deserves credit for. The nationalists were nowhere to be seen in the 1980s and 1990s. Nationalist Cypriots who studied in Greece had their own student organization, DRASIS-KES, and they were Protoporia's bitter enemies. Once they returned to Cyprus they went back to DHSY and kept quiet because they were a small minority.

There is something else that Clerides did which I think was definitely a mistake: resigning the DHSY presidency after he became president. This created a distance between him and the party and allowed the various ambitious nationalists (who are now EYRWKO) to cause trouble.

Those are my last words on this. You don't have to agree, just think about them. Thanks for the debate.

15 March, 2007 21:34  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Last word freak, hehehe.

'The nationalists were nowhere to be seen in the 1980s and 1990s.'

I'm willing to bet a pint of Stella that you weren't around in the 90s. Of course, this isn't much of an argument, but a listing would just be an invitation for more of this flame war we're in, and noullis already asked us to get a room :) I can send you the top highlights by email, if you want.

Cheers.

17 March, 2007 00:16  

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